Transcript 0:00 Motivation ebbs and flows. Mm-hmm. It's not the same every day. So when we talk about someone who, who doesn't have autism or ADHD, we'll call that neurotypical. 0:10 You know, s- you might feel like no matter how you're feeling, it's on your schedule, you're gonna go to the gym every day that it's scheduled because you know you have to do it whether the motivation is there or not. 0:20 Someone who is neurodivergent, someone autism, ADHD, on the spectrum, whatever, whether that, if they're, they're lacking in that motivation, even if it's on the schedule, they might not still go because they wanna work on something else, they don't find it enjoyable that day, maybe their body isn't feeling like it has enough energy, uh, maybe their brain capacity doesn't... 0:40 They don't think they have enough in order to complete it. So that's why it's so important to look at every person differently instead of giving everyone the same type of workout and the same type of workout schedule. 0:50 It's really important to find something that you enjoy and that you are gonna stick to, even if it doesn't look like the influencers that you see online. Abbey Clapper, welcome to Titans of Transition. Thank you so much. 1:04 It was great meeting you. Was that back in January? We, we met at, uh, what was it? PodFest? Yep, PodFest in Orlando. Yeah. There was a great mixer in the Buzzsprout booth. 1:16 I connected with you 'cause, 'cause of what you do, and, uh, my need for more physical activity at my age- [laughs]... the challenges, and you were just so gracious. I really appreciate that. 1:27 I'd love to hear, um, you tell us about how you got into doing what you're doing. I know you have a, a formal background educationally in kinesiology. How do you say that word? Kinesiology. Thank you. 1:43 [laughs] That's one of the ones I always tr- get tripped up on. Yeah, just, just tell us how you ended up doing what you're, you're doing today. Yeah. 1:54 So funny thing about kinesiology, when I tell people kinesiology, people are like, "Oh, so you're, like, into the holistic, you can tell me that I'm missing what minerals and things in my body?" 2:04 And I was like, "Whoa, hold on a second. No." So I usually break it down as it's exercise science, is a really basic way to explain what I do and what I went to school for. 2:12 So I decided to go for exercise science because I did-- I was a three-sport athlete in high school. 2:18 I spent a lot of time with the athletic trainer because I would get injured in these sports, and I thought it was so cool that there was a job where you could work with people in sports. 2:27 And so as I explored that a little bit more, I found that I didn't wanna do all the clinical hours that it took to be an athletic trainer. 2:35 But along the same lines, I could still work with people and help them find ways to exercise and keep people healthy, so that's what really got me into it. And so being a trainer- Mm-hmm... I mean, how'd you... 2:47 Did, were you always a trainer right out of school, or did you do something in between or... Tell us about it. Yeah. So I did, I did corporate wellness for about five or six years. 2:56 And corporate wellness, not many people know that it's a job that exists unless you have, unless you work for a company that has a gym in the building- Mm-hmm... specifically for its employees. So that's what I did. 3:07 I helped manage these fitness centers for employees of, of big companies, and I was teaching classes, doing personal training, running step challenges and healthy challenges to help keep office people healthy because sitting at a desk all day can get really hard on the body, and we're doing a lot of sitting. 3:23 And so that's how I really got my start, and I absolutely loved doing it. 3:28 And then it came to a point about, let's see, I think it's probably been about two and a half years now, where the company that I was contracted to work with was moving to a different building. 3:37 They didn't have a need for, um, my position in a fitness center in that building, so I was able to launch my own business. 3:44 And now I do personal training, and I get to teach group exercise classes and do a little bit of both, so I'm loving it. Well, that's great. And you're a podcaster. I am. 3:53 [laughs] What's the name of your podcast for everybody? Yeah. It's called Talk Your Abs Off, a fun little play on my name- Oh, I like that one... Ab Abs. 4:01 So it's a fitness podcast, and we talk about, um, sustainable ways to keep fitness going in everyday life. 4:06 And then I also have some episodes that really narrow in on, um, helping people with fitness who are neurodivergent or have chronic conditions and what they can still do. 4:15 So really interesting because, you know, I think people often get into physical training to try to, to, uh, impact their overall health. 4:24 Our, um, healthcare system has been so focused on, you know, the blood marker of, of glucose for so long, which is way downstream, you know. 4:33 And then in recent, uh, couple years, it's been all about GLP-1 agonists and Ozempic. And I'm just kinda curious, how much does this come up in your conversation with your clients? Yeah. It's come up a lot recently. 4:47 And it's funny 'cause I actually did a podcast episode with a doctor who, um, does weight management and does, gives GLP-1s because I wanted to learn more about it. I didn't know much. 4:57 Right out the gate when I first heard about it, I thought GLP-1s were the easy way out. I thought that it was the next fad, 'cause, you know, we've seen a lot of- Mm-hmm... fads over the years. 5:05 But as I talked to her and as I kinda dug into it a little bit more, 5:09 I see it more as a tool as opposed to a fad because there is a lot of insulin resistance and a lot of conditions that come with insulin resistance that people might not realize. 5:19 So I, I do work with some people who are on GLP-1s, and it's, I'm so happy that I can because it's so important when you're taking a GLP-1 to still continue to exercise and eat well. Yeah. 5:31 'Cause I think a lot of times we see people taking GLP-1s and not changing any of their other habits. Not their lifestyle, kind of the root cause. 5:39 And I think that's also why, uh, a lot of, um, a lot of doctors in this space are, are looking at microdosing too, staying below the recommended therapeutic dose with the, you know, the side effects of potential protein mass loss and- Mm-hmm... 5:57 that's why it's so important to keep your exercise up, to eat right. 6:02 Because yes, you will be, your appetite will be suppressed and your digestion will be slowed, and there's other factors too, depending on which agonist cocktail you take now. 6:13 But, uh, if you don't address the underlying lifestyle change, then I think after a few years they become the GLP-1 agonists become less effective anyway, and then people-- or they wanna get off of them because of the side effects. 6:28 And then if they haven't addressed it, then they slingshot. It's like The Biggest Loser thing all over again, right? My gosh, yeah. 6:34 But instead of like having these really intense workout regimens and diet for the period of The Biggest Loser show and then them going off of it, you basically are using a hack to get you there. Right. Yeah. 6:49 And I think the way that I talk about GLP-1s is I think it's for a very specific type of person. 6:54 Now, obviously, anybody has access to GLP-1s, but I don't think GLP-1s are for everyone because when we do look at it, it is an appetite suppressant. 7:01 So if someone is having trouble monitoring food noise, usually I say if someone has a really high BMI to where insurance will cover it, then more than likely they're a really good candidate for it, right? 7:11 But if someone's BMI is low, is, quote-unquote, "normal," GLP-1s might not be effective or a very good choice at that time. So yeah, I kind of think it, it comes down to the individual. Yeah. Okay. 7:23 Sorry about that sideline. It was just an area of interest for me, so I thought I'd ask. Yeah, I love it. And just out of curiosity, what's the spread of age of your clients? Great question. 7:36 So, so I live in, uh, Clearwater, Florida. There you go. So the spread is very wide. I work with people from in their thirties to in their eighties, so really wide group here. 7:46 Yeah, so I'm about two and a half hours south of you in Port Charlotte. Okay. And, you know, you look around and you're-- everybody looks like me. A lot of people. I shouldn't say everybody. 7:56 [laughs] Older people retiring down here or whatever. So yeah, I was just kinda, kind of teasing that out a little bit, so maybe we can touch base on advice for older folks. For sure. So 8:09 I think when I looked at your LinkedIn profile, you, your byline said something about helping people live a healthier and fulfilling life. What-- how does that go? Is that close? Yes. Happier, healthier life. Yeah. Okay. 8:21 So it's not just, you know, the, uh, the person, just the gym person. That's-- Abby's not just the gym person who helps you work out. Right. You're really concerned about the person's overall health. Absolutely. Yeah. 8:37 And, and that they're enjoying how they're getting healthy too, because a lot of times fitness can seem really boring. Some people feel like fitness isn't for them if they've had bad experiences in the gym in the past. 8:49 And so really creating a space for people with, I say, different bodies and brains, bodies and brains of all kinds, creating a safe space for them to feel like they can really find a fitness routine that feels good for them. 9:01 'Cause not everyone needs to be in the gym, you know, doing dumbbells or lifting really heavy weights to get healthy. There's so many ways to do it, and I love exploring those options. That's really cool. 9:12 I wanna swing back to a little bit more about what you see as being successful, but I wanna, I wanna reconnect with the reason my podcast exists, and that's transitions and lessons learned. 9:23 Now, maybe you don't view yourself as having a huge, massive transition, like going from being, I don't know, vet to a combat physician or something bizarre like that. 9:35 But you do, did do that transition between the corporate world and your own business. Tell me a little bit more about that change and how you adjusted to it and maybe some of the lessons learned that you went through. 9:49 Yeah. It was a very uncomfortable time in my life, and it's still pretty recent. You know, like I said, maybe like two and a half years ago. I, I had really enjoyed corporate. I loved working with big groups of people. 10:00 I loved the stability of a paycheck every two weeks. 10:03 And when you make that transition to work for yourself, it's, it's so scary because you don't really know how stable it's going to be, but you have to make the jump, and so it's like you have to figure it out one way or another. 10:16 So I was very lucky that I, I had some clients that I was working with on the side during my nine to five. So I would work my nine to five 10:24 or whatever hours they were and then, but either before or after, I would go to, to see other clients on my own. 10:29 So I kinda started this business a little bit just to have something on the side, and then I'm so grateful I did because when the time came, I had something to lean back on because fitness industry is, is really tough. 10:41 Um, either you're a trainer in a corporate gym or you're doing corporate wellness and there's not too much in between, so it's a really hard place to be. 10:49 Being able to find, you know, my own place in it was exciting but also, like I said, very scary and very uncomfortable 'cause it's just the, the not knowing is terrible for me. I have anxiety. It was- Mm-hmm... 11:01 you know, a really, really hard time and feeling like I, you know, was getting rejected from the corporate world and trying to have to kinda find, you know, my own place. 11:13 Um, looking back now, it was-- it's one of the best things I ever did because now I, I control my schedule. Yeah. 11:19 I control-- I get to do everything that I like to do, work with people that I like, and it's really fulfilling now. Yeah. 11:26 So it probably took you six months to a year just to get to the point where you felt like, "Okay, I don't have to, like, freak out because the next month's bill's [chuckles] coming in." Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 11:35 That's exactly how long it took. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I, I find that people go through that working for yourself transition. It really depends on how they're wired, you know? 11:46 Like the difference between myself and my wife, I'm, I'm much more of a, you know, dive in kinda person, figure it out as I jump off the cliff kinda guy. 11:56 Where she's more structured, she wants to have kinda more structure, understanding up front, do more research. To me, research is, you know, a few points, I can make a line, and I can extrapolate from there. So- 12:09 Based upon how you're wired then, you know, you have different levels of stress. Now, there's downsides to being like me because, you know, you can crash and burn and make too many ill-informed changes, right? Yeah. 12:21 So there's definitely... What kind of person are you? How would you describe yourself in that regard? I think I'm a lot like you. 12:27 I think I kind of was ready to just make the jump, whether I was ready for it or not, and then, then I figured it out along the way. 12:33 And I think that's, that happens to a lot of people as they leave corporate and go into entrepreneurship, is you just kinda have to figure it out. But that's the thing, is you have to. You don't have a choice. 12:43 And, you know, that's really motivating when you have to pay the bills and figure out how to do that. There's, um, I've quoted this friend before. 12:51 She owns her own photography business, and she had said, I think it was her or her husband had said one time, "Entrepreneurs, you just make money show up out of thin air, and it really is amazing." 13:00 And it's like, you know what? Like, you're right. Like, we're providing services. Now, it's different with, like, a brick-and-mortar place, I would say. But when you provide a service... 13:07 And I'm also really bad at sales, so that was one of my biggest fears. I was like, "How am I gonna sell to people when I hate selling?" 13:14 So, but I think when you're, when you're really passionate about what you do, people can see that, and they, they want it, and then all you have to do is just, is help them along and sign them up, which is the best part. 13:25 Yeah. Oh, that's interesting, the hate selling part. 13:28 I mean, years ago, I went through a transition where I, um, supported the launch of a software product in the US, and I had to go out and sell and market and do whatever else you had to do, you know, form partnerships with major vendors. 13:43 And then once I sold a few, made large systems, I had to support them. 13:47 So it was good that I was wired the way I was wired, but I did find out, a lesson I learned from that was you get to a certain point, and you realize there are certain things you're doing that, yes, you can kind of, you know, ad lib your way through, but you need to find people to help you, even if it's not a formalized thing, even if it's just, "Hey, can I have coffee and sit down and pick your brain on how do you do these things?" 14:10 Right? Yeah. The whole idea of relationship selling came up and how important it is to think for the long term, which is really, and the opposite of the way you're being pulled in the early days, right? 14:23 And so through word of mouth, which I'm sure after you, you had this kernel, which was really smart. I, I suspect you had an intuition that you were gonna want to make a shift like this anyway or that you saw it coming. 14:35 But you had that kernel, and I'm sure that once you had maybe a few m- more, you started getting referrals. Yeah. Actually, my business is almost 100% referrals, which I love. 14:48 I've never done, uh, 'cause I'm afraid of, like, Facebook ads and all those different ads 'cause I don't know how to use it. So I'm very grateful for happy clients who want to share what I do with their friends. 15:00 And so that's been just such, it's been such a blessing, and I've loved that. And it's also easier to, I'll say, sell to someone when someone else who they trust trusts you. Yeah. So that's, that's part. 15:12 There's your social proof right there, right? Exactly, yeah. Yeah. 15:15 So, um, I'm, I'm grateful that, you know, that that's a thing and just through meeting people organically too, telling them about what I do, having that one-on-one conversation, they're like, "Hey, maybe I might be interested in that." 15:26 Like, I will take that over, you know, leads off the internet any day, mostly because I don't know what kind of leads you get. I don't even know how to do it, so. Mm-hmm. 15:35 Yeah, and, you know, if you, if you're trying to persuade people kind of the, the way our paradigm's of the negative salesperson, it's just... Honestly, I don't wanna, I don't wanna deal with that. I mean, it's so, 15:49 it's not authentic, and usually, you know, your churn rate on people you have sort of, you know, bamboozled into, you know, signing up with you, it's just not worth the effort really. 16:03 So anyway, that's kind of my two cents then. So, all right. So let, let's go back. 16:08 Can we go back now and talk about kind of your experience of, in this private business that you have and the different clientele you have. 16:18 What are some of the principles you think are important for people to understand in order to be successful in, in getting themselves in shape? Great question. 16:28 Maybe some of the hidden ones we don't think of, like the person who's just lazy and doesn't wanna do it. I mean, that's obvious. Right. Maybe some of the non-obvious. 16:36 Well, I think some people think that it comes down to having a really high level of motivation, but the reality is at, at a lot of points you're not gonna have motivation, but you still need to continue, right? 16:49 So I, I work with a lot of people who have, like, autism or ADHD. The motivation ebbs and flows. It's not the same every day. 16:58 So when we talk about someone who, who doesn't have autism or ADHD, we'll call that neurotypical. 17:04 You know, s- you might feel like no matter how you're feeling, it's on your schedule, you're gonna go to the gym every day that it's scheduled because you know you have to do it, whether the motivation is there or not. 17:15 Someone who is neurodivergent, someone autism, ADHD, on the spectrum, whatever, whether that, if they're, they're lacking in that motivation, even if it's on the schedule, they might not still go because they wanna work on something else. 17:27 They don't find it enjoyable that day. Maybe their body isn't feeling like it has enough energy. Uh, maybe their brain capacity doesn't, they don't think they have enough in order to complete it. 17:37 So that's why it's so important to look at every person differently instead of giving everyone the same type of workout and the same type of workout schedule. 17:45 It's really important to find something that you enjoy and that you are gonna stick to, even if it doesn't look like the influencers that you see online. 17:54 A lot of times those influencers, they have so much time on their hands that- Yeah... they're at the gym all day. They can do whatever they want, but that's not realistic for the rest of us. Right. Exactly. 18:03 That's why I'm- Yeah. So that's one of the big things, and then I think you just giving yourself grace. 18:06 Again, like hustle culture and the workout culture, all the influencers are gonna scream at you that you just have to, you know, dig in and do it. 18:14 But giving yourself grace on days when you're really not feeling it and allowing your body to maybe take a walk or focus on stretching, like those things are just as important as a hard workout in the gym. 18:25 That's interesting. Different kinds of people, and I like the way you talked about the ADHD and the neurodivergent versus the, what did you call it? The- Neurotypical. 18:36 Anyway, I mean, my, my kids have said that I'm probably ADHD- Hmm... before they were diagnosing. Could be true. Yeah, that's really interesting. 18:44 I, it also takes me into the, the territory of habits, and I think about, uh, the author of Atomic Habits. And one of the big principles, I think it kind of applies here. 18:54 I wanna see what you think about this idea, if you're familiar with his work. And that is that you really don't change behavior until you, you really work on your identity. 19:05 Instead of, you know, saying to yourself, "You know, here's my schedule. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this today." Or, "I'm checking... I'm X-ing off that day on the calendar that I did it. 19:17 How many days have I done it?" Instead of doing that, ask yourself the question, "What would the person that you're identi- I'm a person who takes care of my body." Mm-hmm. "I'm a person concerned for my health." 19:28 What does a person who's concerned for their health do? You know? It's kind of an interesting little nuanced shift rather than this guilt-inducing, you know, "I'm, I'm disciplined." Yeah. "I'm going to be disciplined." 19:41 Right. I'm g- I'm so glad that you brought that up. So I read part of Atomic Habits, and that happens to be a part of the book that I did read. 19:48 And, and I, I actually love that perspective shift because if you can say, "I'm a person who exercises" instead of, "Oh, I really need to get to the gym," like it really changes almost your value around exercise, which is what we want. 20:03 Like, so many people feel, like you said, that guilt around exercise, but we don't-- We wanna remove that guilt because that's gonna, you know, it's gonna bring you like negative self-talk and negative feelings every time you wanna go but don't. 20:17 And we, we don't wanna feel that way because otherwise we're gonna snowball into, "Well, I'm gonna give up again." 20:21 So I think that that's something that a lot of people have who have tried the gym and failed multiple times or who yo-yo diet. You know, "These things just aren't working. I just can't do it." 20:30 But if we change the perspective and shift it more into your value system and why you wanna make the change, I think that's where we see a lot more of like the sticking of the habits when we have, "I wanna do this because I wanna be able to play with my kids and my grandkids. 20:45 I wanna do this because I wanna run my first 5K," or whatever, you know, realistic goal that someone can set instead of, "Oh, I wanna lose 50 pounds in a month." 20:55 Like, you know, again, we're setting ourselves up for failure. 20:58 But if we have something realistic that we can track, we have a goal that we're reaching towards, and if you can start to see those little things add up, you get little hits of dopamine that are gonna keep you going when we have a smaller, more achievable goal. 21:11 So yeah, I think the identity piece of it and finding the value within yourself that you want to achieve really makes a difference. 21:18 So I guess that's part of, you know, you getting a feel for the person who's signed up for y- with you- Mm-hmm... is beyond the sort of surface level, "What are your goals?" 21:28 It's kind of what's driving, what's the motivation behi- You ta- said that earlier, the motivation. You said that a couple times. So is that kind of part of how you feel people out to know how to work with them? 21:39 Absolutely. So one of my biggest things is making sure that I'm really hearing the person and listening. 21:45 A lot of trainers might not-- They might hear you, but they might not really listen to what you want, and all they're thinking is, "Okay, I wanna do this, and this, and this with them," instead of, "Well, what do you wanna do? 21:55 What does meaningful movement look like for you?" So I think it's, it's really difficult. I'm finding as a trainer having a lot of empathy, um, and I've been an empath for as long as I can remember. 22:04 I mean, I get sad when I see animals outside that are getting wet or, you know, things like that. Like, my husband and I, we save all the bugs. And so I have empathy, very severe empathy- Right... 22:12 which can almost be to a fault sometimes. But having empathy when it comes to people and exercise and really just finding their pain points and helping them overcome. 22:22 You know, I've had people come and say, "Well, I've tried this before. It hasn't worked." Well, then we don't have to try what you tried. We can try something else. Find something that feels good for you. 22:31 And I'm never the person who's gonna tell someone, like, "Oh, I'm really disappointed in you. Like, you really do need to get to the gym." It's, "It's okay. 22:38 Take a day off and, you know, we'll regroup tomorrow and see what fits best into your schedule." It's really about allowing people that space to feel safe within the fitness industry. There's, there's a lot there. 22:51 A- and I think about a personal experience when I was-- years ago. This is probably twenty years ago when I was... I had a trainer. It was actually at twenty-four Hour Fitness- Hmm... if I remember correctly. 23:03 And I just felt like I was on, on the, um, assembly line. Mm-hmm. And that this guy was saying the same things to everybody. Yeah. So what you said just resonated with an experience I've had back years ago. 23:19 And it was just, you know, "This is what you have to do. Do this now. Okay, now go over here and do this." You know, just it was not very enjoyable. Yeah. 23:31 I didn't feel-- It's like, like having a conversation, not feeling like the person's actually has any concern about what you're saying. 23:38 You know, it's kinda like the opposite of what we've all been trained to do with quote active listening, but- Mm-hmm... there was no deep concern or understanding 23:49 in order to enable you to coach and to help people into the trans- position that they really want. Or do they really want it? Do they really own it? Or the doctor tell them they needed to 24:01 lose weight or get in shape, and they don't really wanna do it, you know? Right. Yeah So, yeah Well, and we, we run into that too, I think, when we see people saying calories in, calories out. 24:12 You know, I was that trainer for a while too. Sorry, I hate that. No, and I, and I agree because when we look at people's different health conditions, you know, we... 24:20 Sometimes people don't know if they have a thyroid condition or if they have something that's just not allowing them to release, you know, like release weight from their body. 24:32 I, I also used to be a trainer who, you know, we would do before and after pictures and, and that... There was a place for that. 24:38 There was a time for people who, and there, there is a place for people who wanna lose weight in a healthy way. 24:43 But I also tell all of my clients now, I don't guarantee weight loss because, you know, your body is unique, and I don't know how it's going to respond. 24:50 But we wanna aim for gaining strength, you know, gaining muscle, making sure that you're eating well to support your active lifestyle, and I think that that needs to be a bigger focus. 25:00 I think, I mean, in society over time, everyone's always been worried about weight, but there's so much more to a person than just what they weigh. It's about being healthy and living that healthy lifestyle. Well, yeah. 25:11 I mean, you could weigh... This is not exactly calories, but you could weigh exactly the same, and your body composition can completely- Mm-hmm... adjust to meet that weight in the wrong direction even. Exactly. Right? 25:22 Um, yeah. I wa- I just... Like, I really enjoy some of the work by, uh, Dr. Fung, Jason Fung up in Toronto. He wrote The Obesity Code. I actually in about, let's see, what year would it have been? 25:38 Probably 2018 or something like that, I started doing intermittent fasting, time restricted, and I, I had never lost bunch of weight, but I lost 50 pounds just by doing that, to be honest, and I've kept 45 of it off. 25:53 Calories are measured by putting things in a calorimeter and burning them. Mm. And you can put things in a calorimeter that your body won't even... It'll pass right through your body. Yeah. 26:06 You won't get any of that energy into your system whatsoever. Right. How, you know, insulin gets signaled by them, for example. Yeah. Completely different. 26:15 Yeah, and I think that's something that people need to remember too. 26:18 You know, like obviously we wanna, we want to focus on putting in good, you know, good foods in our body that are gonna, you know, sustain us, give us energy, helpful. 26:27 But we also need to enjoy our life a little bit, so if you wanna have, you know, cake and cookies, as long as we're not- Right... you know, swinging the pendulum the other way- Like going crazy... 26:35 and going off the rails. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So, um, let's talk a little bit about how pe- how you get people started. So you talked about how you, you assess them, kind of your philosophy. 26:49 Um, and let's, I don't know, take a random case of someone who's 70-plus years old and wants to, to, uh, not lose any more muscle- Mm-hmm... and engages with you. What would you tell them? 27:06 And then we'll get into injuries later 'cause I think there's a story to tell. Absolutely. [laughs] Yeah, I... So I'm a very, uh, I call myself a conservative personal trainer. 27:15 Conservative in the fact that I'm not gonna start people with really heavy weights, because I want them to come back. I want them to lift a day with me and still wanna continue working out with me. 27:25 I don't want people to be extremely sore. Um, I want you to feel like you worked out, but I don't think it needs to be debilitating that you can't get up off the toilet, especially if you're 70 years old, right? 27:35 70 or older. So I am perfectly content starting people with, you know, two and three-pound weights just to learn the movements. If it's someone who's never exercised before, I wanna make sure there's proper form. 27:48 I tend to do a lot of exercises like laying down on the floor because you're more supported. You're at less risk of injuring shoulders, things like that. 27:57 So and just making sure that we have good, solid movements before we start taking the weight up. 28:02 So, you know, I'll keep someone at those lower weights for, you know, two or three months, and then we'll maybe start adding some heavier weights, depending on how someone's feeling, depending on how frequently we're working out. 28:15 But really, you can start light with really light weights and still, um, you're still starting to build that muscle. 28:20 And especially as we get older, the most important thing is trying to avoid things like osteopenia and osteoporosis. 28:26 So, you know, the more muscle you have, we can also improve some of that bone density or at least try to prevent losing a lot more of it, and we're also losing muscle. 28:36 After the age of 30, our muscle starts to decline significantly, so we wanna make sure that we can keep as much as we can, especially as we get older. 28:43 So that's my main focus with clients that are older, is really just building the base and then from there, you know, making sure that we're doing... 28:51 For every client, I like to tell people, every, every person should be doing a squat, a hinge, a push, and a pull exercise multiple times a week. So those are the main things. 29:01 That's also gonna help you live your life, right? We're bending over to pick things up. We're squatting to pick up boxes. We're reaching to get things. 29:09 These are all movements that we wanna stay strong in, especially as we get older. So that's kinda where I would start someone, and then it's only up from there. We can start increasing weights. 29:18 We can start trying new movement patterns. But really starting with the absolute basics and very light is something that I love to do, and it makes people feel comfortable. 29:26 They don't feel like they're gonna hurt themselves or doing too much. Right. I liked the way you talked about starting slowly too because you are gonna get sore. That's where your micro tears and all that jazz. Mm-hmm. 29:37 Yep. But, um, again, it gets back to you, you're not interested in the quick fix that's not retained over the long term. Yeah. Right? No. We want this to be a lifestyle change, and it's sustainable. 29:49 We want people to keep doing it. So weights, free weights, machines, bands, thoughts on all these different things, or- The TRX. TRX. I love a TRX. 30:00 I do too, but I, uh, since my, uh, shoulders have gotten a little bit wacky, they, it kinda hurts. I have to-- It seems kinda silly when I'm going Right. Yeah, [laughs] exactly You're making me feel better now. 30:11 I'm ready to hook it back up [laughs] That's funny. Yeah. I- it depends on what people have access to, right? 30:17 Yeah So a lot of times when I work with people, I go to their homes or I train them virtually, and they have maybe a couple sets of dumbbells. Sometimes I'll go to someone's gym with them, and they do have machines. 30:27 A machine, and when we're talking about gym machines, when you walk into a gym, it's the ones that you can sit on. It's got a seat. You can do your seated shoulder press, you can do seated bicep curls, things like that. 30:37 So those are really good initially to learn the movement patterns. If you are uncomfortable with free weight dumbbells or if you feel like your stability muscles aren't very strong, it's a really great place to start. 30:49 So if you have access to machines and you're starting for the first time, really great to start with that. 30:54 If we don't have that, I like dumbbells, as long as they're- they're light and they're in, you know, we're in a safe... Our bodies are- are in the right form- Mm-hmm... and we're using it safely. 31:03 So I think that dumbbells can be perfect. Like, all you need is some dumbbells. If all you have is resis- resistance bands, use resistance bands. There's a thousand things you can do with that. 31:12 So I like to look at it from what do you have already, so you don't need to buy a whole home gym in order to get your fitness on. 31:19 So using what you have, but if you are starting, I would say machines, then dumbbells, and then you can get into all the other crazy equipment. And what about the, uh, aerobic side of things? The aerobic side. Yeah. 31:30 So that's where it can be really tough because people will be like, "Well, Abby, I hate running." Well, the good news is that not everybody has to run. Walking counts as aerobic activity. 31:40 [laughs] You can do walking, you can do dancing. There are Zumba classes. You can do, I mean, you know, we got the stair steppers, we have ellipticals, we have bikes, whether it's the- Tell me more about that one... 31:49 recumbent bikes in the gym or- Yeah... an upright bike. Like, truly there are so many options, and we can find one that someone might like. That's cool. Okay, let's get into injuries. Okay. 32:00 Before we pressed record, I mentioned to you that my wife had just had rotator cuff repair. She had actually fallen down and, and did a stiff arm to break her fall. Mm. 32:12 And the shock of that actually popped the, the, uh, uh, cuff down. Oh my gosh And she had to have like, get reattached and all that kind of jazz. So she's just started PT this week. Wow. 32:28 But hasn't been able to sleep in anything but a reclining chair until about four days ago. Mm-hmm. She's back in bed now, but, um- Yeah... 32:36 and you mentioned that you, you had a [laughs] 'cause you probably didn't follow your own advice on, on lifting or something. Yeah. No. I, I have a rotator cuff strain that I'm rehabbing right now. Okay. 32:47 Um, I was bench pressing. I, I was following a strength program, um, from another coach. Even if it was my own, it could happen at any weight with anybody's coaching. 32:57 Um, it was a, I was barbell bench pressing, and it was a little bit heavy, and I felt something weird in my shoulder, but I decided to push through it, which I should not have done. You gotta listen to your body, folks. 33:09 Um, and so I did that, and then, um, couldn't use it for maybe about a month. And so I, I, I was just doing legs and I had, I was like, "Let me just rest it. It'll be fine." 33:19 Then I had gotten a massage and something happened and it flared back up again and I couldn't push or pull my arm. Mm. And I was like, "God, man, I really need to probably go to the doctor this time." 33:28 And at, you know, the ripe age of 31, I was like, "God, I need my shoulder. Like, I, you know, I can't just leave this." So I went. He said rotator cuff strain due to shoulder impingement. 33:36 So a shoulder impingement, a lot of times if you think about your posture, if your shoulders round forward, that's essentially can be a shoulder impingement. So because my posture's bad, it wasn't really helping me. 33:47 I wasn't bench pressing in the proper position. So I'm in physical therapy. We're working on pulling my shoulders back, strengthening through my back muscles, and now I'm really careful about lifting upper body. 33:57 [laughs] How long do, did they predict it's gonna take to, to get you back to- Well, I went in on Wednesday for my appointment, so two days ago, and he told me I was good to go. 34:07 And I was like, "Well, I would still like some more physical therapy for my own sanity, please." Be some time. But, but so it took about a month. Um, a month- Yeah... of physical therapy to, to fix this. 34:16 It was very minor though, so everyone's shoulders are different. 34:19 But, you know, making sure that our bodies are in the right positions and that we're warming up before exercise is super important and all those fun things. 34:26 So yeah, injuries in weightlifting happen all the time though, and you know, it's just about being careful and, you know, yeah, listening to your body's the biggest thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. 34:38 It's hard to believe I was a gymnast in high school. Were you really? Yeah. That's cool. I didn't, I didn't go all around. I just did the pommel horse- Mm-hmm... and vaulting. Mm. 34:47 But yeah, I've had a, I had a couple injuries there for sure. But, yeah, I don't think I could climb the ropes up and down with- without my legs- Mm... anymore. Yeah. 34:58 I'm curious if the gymnastics played a part into what your shoulders are doing now. N- well, it did actually. 35:05 My r- my right shoulder, I, I injured it initially in gymnastics and it was okay, and then I injured it again in volleyball- Mm... doing a smash 'cause I was coming down. 35:19 It's probably, you know, 20 or something like that. And then I was also in martial arts and I, that's when I had my right arm dislocated. Oh gosh. I can imagine. Yeah. [laughs] It's kinda crazy. 35:32 Let's talk a little bit about your podcast and how does it fit into your, your business or is it completely separate? 35:39 I mean, obviously you have the same interests and the same passions, but is it the top of your funnel or is it, you know, how does it fit? Yeah. I initially started the podcast as a marketing tool. 35:50 As anyone who starts a podcast, you think it's gonna go viral and you're gonna get all these listens, and I was like, "This is gonna be a great way for me to get new clients." Wrong. 35:58 But I found that people really did enjoy listening to conversations around small sustainable habits that other people do that they can maybe add into their, their lifestyle. So when- Yeah... 36:11 I first started the podcast, I was talking to a functional health nurse about gut health. I was talking to a running coach about how to start running Super small things that are easy to add. 36:21 I have some guests who were really inspirational in finding exercise through grief and all these different things. So the podcast is going to be two in June, I believe, and I've kinda changed how I approach the podcast. 36:36 You know, it has not gone viral. I get some pretty consistent listens. I love that. And I love my listeners so much and that they keep coming back for more and all the new listens that I get. 36:45 But I've changed it a bit to now focus more... I've, I found my niche of people who are neurodivergent and have chronic health conditions and, and really helping them find things that work for them. 36:56 But what I also learned was it's a really great referral network. So if I have... Here's an example. I had a physical therapist who works with people with hypermobility. 37:06 I have clients with hypermobility, so I said, "Let's talk about the importance of strength training with hypermobility." Had her on the show. 37:13 She's like, "I didn't know that there were trainers that worked specifically with people who were hypermobile." I said, "Well, I, I can, and I, you know, am happy to." 37:19 And so she referred to me two people: one person that she worked with and one person in a networking group that we were both in. 37:27 And I was like, well, this is fantastic if I can connect with local people, or not even people who aren't local, but I can build out this referral network, have these conversations. 37:36 We can all support each other in these different fields of what we do, um, and I've really kinda leaned a little bit into that too, so that's been fun. It's a great way to network. Yeah. 37:44 Hypermobility, maybe you should define that. I, I think I know, but... Yeah. Hypermobility, sometimes called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, uh, sometimes called hypermobility, is basically when your joints are extra flexible. 37:57 So it means that your- So it's the old double joint designation. Yes, the double jointedness. Yeah. So the cartilage, cartilage and tendons and ligaments are just a little bit loose. 38:07 So oftentimes you'll see people be able to touch... They'll, they'll bend their hand. They'll touch their thumb to their forearm. I can't do it. I'm not hypermobile. 38:14 Or if people's knees kinda look backwards when they lock them out- Mm-hmm... a little bit, or people who extend their arms and their elbows pop up the opposite way. 38:22 Oftentimes that's what it looks like, so yeah, that's another thing. [laughs] Yeah. Well, it seems like you would have to address that for people working out, you know? Absolutely, yeah. 38:31 Well, how they- And building the stability around the joints, yeah. Yeah. In that case, there has to be more, uh, well, other muscles that have to take up the role of keeping that joint stable. Yeah. 38:42 'Cause just if you- A lot of overcompensation. Yep, for sure. Yeah, stability kind of environment, kinda like how your core stabilizes your spine, right? Yep, absolutely. Yeah. That's interesting. That's crazy. 38:52 Well, what haven't we talked about? What do we need to talk about? What do you think- Gosh... what, what would you leave people with who are... Let's put it this way. 39:02 People who know they should be working out, like me- Mm-hmm... and really should get started. I, I'll, I admit to you, I can go to the gym for free as part of my medical benefit at my age. Mm-hmm. 39:12 But I hate going because mostly the gyms that are nearby are so busy- Mm... that I'd have to go at a crazy time of night, and the other option would be, well, just invest a little bit of money and do it at home. Right. 39:24 Right? Yeah. So I mean, I know these things, but- [laughs] How would you have empathy for people who are having trouble getting started? Absolutely. I usually tell people to start small and find something that you enjoy. 39:39 So starting small can look like adding in walks around your neighborhood or finding... I love YouTube videos. There are so many free good YouTube workout videos. 39:50 If you like Pilates, yoga, strength training with dumbbells, resistance bands, you can find any type of workout on YouTube from your home. 39:58 Type in body weight, type in whatever piece of equipment you have, and something that you have will pop up. And then it's about finding something that you like. 40:07 So, you know, you can fi- there are trainers on the internet who do... who are into, like, video games, and so they can do video game workouts or all these different things. 40:17 And finding something that you enjoy, again, whether it's dancing, walking, running, finding a friend to bring in with you. 40:24 There are so many ways to make it happen, and that's the other thing that I always like to leave people with, is there's always something that you can do. 40:31 Even if you have an injury, a chronic health condition, if you feel like your brain works a little bit differently, there's something that's going to work for you. 40:38 You just have to find it, and that's the most important thing. So break it up, small chunks. Get started. Get momentum. Yeah? Yes. Get the mo- fi- yeah. 40:49 Find the thing that's gonna get you started so that you can continue the snowball. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Well, gosh, I don't, I, I've run out of questions. Then I think we covered it all. 40:59 Well, this has been a lot of fun, and I can already think of a number of people I would want to, uh, refer you to. Here's a question, though. One thing did, did come to mind is I think you mentioned... 41:09 Did you say you do remote classes too? Yeah. So I, I do- How does that work?... one-on-one in person and virtual. So I do it over, like, I like to use Google Meet. It's just super easy. 41:20 And so basically what happens is when I work with people over Google Meet, whatever equipment they have, I plan out their workouts for them. I take them through the workout. 41:28 I can watch their form, correct their form, and we get to chat. It's f- it's like chatting with a friend while you're working out, right? But also getting the professional guidance. I also have a, um, that I do for... 41:39 I have a monthly membership, so if you don't want me to be there with you, but you just don't know what you want for your workout, you can sign up for a monthly membership with me and there's... 41:48 I'll, I'll customize your workouts around your schedule and your abilities and the equipment that you have. You'll get your workouts sent to you, so you don't even have to think about it. 41:55 All you have to do is open up the app, what am I doing today, and just follow it, and you're good to go. So a lot of different options. That's great. That's really helpful. Yeah. 42:02 So all that information and how to get ahold of you we will drop in the show notes. Perfect. And make it available to everyone. And, um, I just love the way you are so encouraging. Thank you. 42:16 So, I mean- I'm glad to hear that... I didn't know you at all. I just thought you were very interesting when I met you at the mixer at, at the podcasting conference. Yeah. And, uh, PodFest. And, uh, I don't know. 42:28 I j- you just put me at ease, and now I just don't feel so bad talking to someone who is in a space that I've been avoiding. So I love that. I love to hear that. That makes me so happy. Well, that's great. 42:41 And maybe you should, um, have an episode that is like a webinar or a live stream for neurodi- or neuro- neurodivergent in particular. I bet you, you get a lot of people jump on that. Yeah, absolutely. 42:54 If you haven't already done it, I mean. [laughs] I try to cater some of my content on Instagram to that. The dreaded IG. I know. It's the worst. All right. Listen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 43:06 I really appreciate it, Abby. Thank you. Thank you, Joe. All right. Hey, thanks for joining me today on Titans of Transition. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Please check the show notes for additional information.
